Roni Kaplan the person defines himself as someone born in Uruguay, who emigrated to Israel 21 years ago, is married to Maia, and has six children. On the other hand, Roni Kaplan the professional is the spokesperson for the most discussed army in the world: the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). The Israeli army.
Among the deluge of interviews he is granting, he reviewed the war with me. It has been about 111 cruel days for the Gazan civilians and painful for the Israeli civilians. I spoke to Roni as a Jewish journalist, but also as a humanistic journalist. In other words, as a journalist who wants the best for his people, but also as a journalist who seeks the prosperity of the Palestinian people.
Gabriel: What are the latest developments in the war? What is the current situation?
Roni: We, as the IDF, continue to defend the Israeli population from sustained attacks, day after day, from multiple fronts. Some come directly from our borders, while others originate beyond the borders. We are still working to bring our hostages back home, which in Gaza are 136. Also, the goal is to dismantle Hamas and restore the security of each of our borders.
Certainly, if the Israeli government were to request a ceasefire, as any lawful state, we would comply. But basically, we are still operating at this moment. As long as Hamas continues to hold 136 civilians hostage in Gaza, we will keep fighting against Hamas.
Is everything being done to recover the hostages? How does the army handle the situation? Besides seeking to dismantle Hamas, how do you fight to recover them? I understand that it is a very sensitive and difficult matter.
Yes. The reality is that for the IDF, these are parallel objectives. The more we can pressure Hamas, the greater the chances that the conditions will be created for Hamas to release these hostages we have in Gaza. These are two objectives that go absolutely hand in hand.
Then, regarding how the hostages are treated when they arrive in Israel: during that operational pause several weeks ago, 110 hostages were released. 86 of them were Israelis, and 24 were foreigners. Unfortunately, 11 corpses also arrived in Israel. In total, 121 individuals.
They arrive here [in Israel], and they receive a very private treatment, considering everything they went through. They lived through days of a Holocaust there. Also, considering the way they were kidnapped. Treatment is provided by professional organizations, both from the military and the Israeli security system. It is something that is kept as private as possible for each and every released hostage.
What self-criticism does the IDF make about the events on October 7?
We, undoubtedly, failed. Perhaps it was one of the most significant mistakes since the creation of the modern State of Israel, on the day when more Israeli civilians were killed than ever before.
Between what happened and what should have happened, there is a gap, a very important difference. And in that difference is where the investigation into the army's actions, and all other elements, will likely focus. A huge failure on our part. The responsibility is largely ours. We will learn the lesson, and we will have to improve.
"Hamas wants to create psychological terror, and believes that the only way to sustain itself is by holding Israeli hostages."
Why do you think Hamas continues to hold hostages or launch missiles? Is it purely to cause harm, or is there another objective?
That's a good question. The reality is that Hamas wants to generate psychological terror, primarily among the Israeli population. It has no intention of laying down its weapons; it wants to keep fighting. Hamas believes that the only way to sustain itself and exist is by holding Israeli hostages because, in exchange for them, it can achieve various objectives.
As I mentioned, we are doing everything possible to bring these hostages back home, both diplomatically and militarily. We have been working towards this for the past 111 days.
Hamas perpetrated the attack on October 7, precisely at a time when Israel was improving its relations with Saudi Arabia.
It is highly likely that, at the moment when the axis of evil, including Iran, some terrorist groups in Syria, Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen, and some groups in the Judea and Samaria region, realizes that Israel could make peace or at least normalize relations with such an important Sunni country as Saudi Arabia.
These terrorist groups define themselves as 'anti-Israel.' In other words, they do not have a positive definition. Hamas often states that "Israel will continue to exist until Islam eliminates it, just as it has eliminated many others," viewing the world in black and white, between believers and non-believers.
If Israel could demonstrate itself as a positive factor in the Middle East, among countries deciding to recognize it not only behind the scenes but also publicly, Hamas might lose its identity. This is a opportune moment, obviously, to destabilize the Middle East, to try to spread radical Islam, and to destabilize the security of the entire region.
It is very likely that the events on October 7 respond to a more rational logic, as you mentioned. We deeply understand that if we manage to dismantle Hamas, we will remove the instability that Hamas brought to the area.
We will provide security and liberate the Palestinian people in Gaza from Hamas, ensuring security for the Israeli people and preventing the spread of jihadist ideology and radical Islam, which aims to establish a caliphate over the ruins of the modern State of Israel. That is what Hamas intends to do.
Just as the goal with Hamas is to dismantle it, what is the goal and expectation with Hezbollah?
Hezbollah began attacking us on October 7. As a result, 80,000 Israeli citizens from the border area with Lebanon had to relocate. Hezbollah possesses anti-tank missiles of the Kornet type, with the longest ones reaching eight kilometers and reaching positions within Israel. Like Hamas, Hezbollah targets Israeli civilians and infiltrates among its civilian population, albeit under slightly different conditions, in southern Lebanon.
We need to return 80,000 people to the area from which they evacuated. Children need to go back to school, and men and women need to return to work and their homes. There are two options.
The preferable option, which we always favor, is a diplomatic solution. If Hezbollah decides to move north, for example, to the Litani River, about 12 kilometers from the Israeli border, and a resolution like 17.01 is reached, as in the Second Lebanon War, a resolution that works and is not blatantly violated by Hezbollah, as has been happening almost daily since 2006.
That is the best option. The window is still open for a diplomatic solution. The other solution is the military one, which is the last thing we want. However, if Hezbollah leaves us no other option, what can we do? We have repeatedly talked to the Lebanese population, asking them and the Lebanese government whether Hezbollah is the true protector of the Lebanese population, as they claim every day, or if it is actually the protector of Hamas and Iran. If they are going to drag us into a regional war, a war involving the entire Middle East. We hope it doesn't come to that, but in case it does, we are prepared for any contingency.
Speaking of Palestine, I know you've discussed this before, and it's a recurring theme. But I want you to explain it to me. When targeting terrorist objectives in Gaza, what do you do to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible? Is there more that can be done?
We do everything within our capabilities. We also engage with major armies worldwide to try to minimize civilian harm in the Gaza Strip and maximize harm to terrorists.
What is done to mitigate this damage? On one hand, the choice of ammunition and the timing of operations in specific areas are selected to avoid collateral damage. On the other hand, field hospitals have been allowed to enter through the Rafah crossing to treat the wounded in the Gaza Strip.
Additionally, warnings are given before operating in an area. The civilian population is informed, sacrificing our element of surprise against the terrorists. People are informed that the area is a combat zone, a danger zone, and they are directed to evacuate.
We are talking about approximately 79,000 calls from Israelis speaking to Palestinians to leave the area, 7.2 million leaflets dropped, warning people to leave, 13.7 million text SMS sent to phones, and over 15 million phone calls with a recorded message. We are talking about well over 35 million efforts to minimize harm to the civilian population. Obviously, Hamas prevents them from leaving.
We have also established humanitarian aid, and even when Hamas launches rockets, we do not respond to those areas because they are humanitarian zones. Since October 21, more than 190,000 tons of humanitarian aid have entered the Gaza Strip, including water, food, medical equipment, blankets, and other goods. More than 300 trucks have been sent specifically to mitigate harm to the civilian population.
These are not our enemies; this is not a war against the civilian population in Gaza.
It is not a war against Islam. It is a war against a terrorist group whose charter states that Israel will exist until Islam allows it, just as it has eliminated many others.
Behind the tens of thousands of military targets we have surpassed in the Gaza Strip, there is a military necessity. There is, therefore, proportionality, which, according to International Humanitarian Law, is the specific advantage that the party operating in that place -in this case, the IDF- can gain compared to the amount of collateral damage that can be generated.
Everything is given constantly, and it is truly disheartening that a significant part of the world is condemning Israel. We are aware of that. They are accusing Israel of not adhering to International Humanitarian Law when Israel is fighting according to International Humanitarian Law.
Israel fights according to Judeo-Christian values, which are even broader than this law. Essentially, Israel is doing everything to protect civilians in the conflict or, at least, everything within its capabilities against a terrorist group like Hamas that infiltrates among the civilian population. Israel is the one receiving criticism from the West when the central objective of International Humanitarian Law is precisely to protect civilians in a conflict.
Hamas does not do that; it uses women and children as human shields. It openly admits it. It says it wants to commit the same crimes against Israeli civilians as on October 7. It claims that Gazan civilians are not their problem, that they are the responsibility of the UN. Despite ruling the Gaza Strip since 2007, they steal all this humanitarian material whose passage is allowed by Israel, completely disregarding all this legal framework. International Humanitarian Law does not apply to Hamas, only to Israel.
Do you feel like you have to justify yourself too much? Do you feel that, among all the military spokespersons worldwide, you are the one who has to justify the actions the most? How do you manage that emotionally?
I am here to provide accurate, contrasted information with patience and composure. There is no doubt that Israel, even though it has one of the armies in the world that strives the most to operate according to International Humanitarian Law, is much more criticized than armies like the Syrian or Yemeni, or parts of Africa that indiscriminately kill civilians in these battles.
For some reason, Israel is highly criticized. I feel that criticism comes mainly from Latin American progressivism, or rather, pseudo-progressivism. They essentially see the world, like Hamas, in a dichotomous way, in black and white. Where the idea of the leader is exalted, and they only have answers for Israel, not a single question.
All of this contrasts with a culture of interpretation, like the Jewish culture and perhaps the Judeo-Christian culture, where the other has their difference and identity, and the right to it, just as you and I have the right to our identities. That is what makes us interesting.
From the perspectives of the jihadist agenda and pseudo-progressive Latin American agenda, we encounter a dichotomous worldview where there is no room for differences, and Israel is cast as the black. Often by the ignorant, in many cases, the anti-Israeli, and in some cases, the antisemite. If Israel or the Jew did not exist, they would invent it because it is practically to blame for everything that happens in this world.
I'm not saying Israel is the best country in the world, but I'm sure it's not one of the worst. It is a country that invests the most in research and development, relative to its GDP, at 5.44%. It is a country that transformed the desert into flourishing fields and advanced in the fields of science and technology.
I wonder what Hamas built. What did ISIS build? What did Boko Haram build? What did Al-Qaeda build? Yet, from pseudo-progressive perspectives, they are the ones who are always right.
Do you think that, with the way Israel has been handling things in recent years and in the present, peace with Palestine is possible? And what do you think needs to happen in Palestine or Gaza for them to also sign peace with Israel?
From my position as the IDF spokesperson, the only way to achieve peace is through education. If in the Gaza Strip, ruled by Hamas, and even in the West Bank, governed by the Palestinian National Authority, the education system continues to promote hatred towards the other – the Israeli, the Jew, living within Israel – teaching to run over Israelis when they drive or to cut their throats with a knife, then we will achieve nothing.
What must be done to achieve peace? I believe that if Israel were to lay down its arms, it would quickly jeopardize its existence, as demonstrated on October 7. However, if terrorist groups were disarmed, peace would quickly follow.
Israel, I would say, is a country that has tried for years to make peace and has succeeded for much of its history. The problem is that now there is no valid interlocutor for peace. Where there is a valid interlocutor who recognizes us as a Jewish, democratic state, at that moment, I believe peace will come very quickly.
But who can Israel make peace with? Without getting into political issues but rather philosophical ones, with whom can Israel make peace if those attacking Israel are five sub-state terrorist groups that do not recognize Israel's existence? We must begin by recognizing the other, recognizing the suffering of the other. It is also Israel's responsibility: we must recognize the suffering of the Palestinians who exist.
We must be serious. Do you remember that Hamas terrorist who called his parents and said, "Mom, Dad, I killed ten Jews! I have ten dead Jews here, and there are also Jewish women." And the mother crying on the other end of the phone, as if it were the culmination of his education. We must be as serious as he is so that, in the future, we can forgive, stop hating, and love.
But there is no doubt that, in this case, in the Gaza Strip, religion has turned human beings into murderers. It is not all of Islam; it is radical Islam. And it is part of the problem, not the solution.
I imagine that the example for Palestine should be Egypt, which opened up and eventually achieved peace with Israel years ago.
Let's hope we recognize each other for what we are. We came to this place, or rather, we never left this place. We longed for it during 2,000 years of exile, a capital for our people. More than a thousand years before Christ.
And basically, when we could establish a state here, we did so democratically. There is a 21% Arab population here in Israel, with equal rights and obligations. A democratic and Jewish state. A state that is one-sixth of one percent of the Middle East, a people that represent 0.2% of the world population, the Jewish people. And basically, this state does not have the right to exist.
In a way, some of those we talked about earlier see the State of Israel as the Jew among nations, that Jew who was also persecuted. That is Israel. But our condition is not the same as during the Holocaust (my grandparents went through it). It is a new condition. We are here to make peace with all the neighbors in the area. But that peace must come with recognition.
It must come without weapons because basically, if not, we are not willing to be here for them to try to oust us once again, time after time. Even in 2023, on October 7, a terrorist group violated, murdered, massacred, and incinerated, in broad daylight, in Israeli kibbutzim, which also represents a significant failure on our part.
Speaking more about Israel internally, there was a case of a boy who recently refused to join the army and was sentenced to jail as a result. What do you think of this? If someone does not want to serve in the army, should they go to jail?
I honestly haven't heard about that specific case. But Israel is a vibrant democracy where there is freedom of expression and conscience. Basically, when you play by democratic rules, you have all kinds of voices, expressions, and you have to continue playing that way. That is the reality. At least that is what I think personally.
About 360,000 reservists came to the army. Now there are over 200,000. We all came here to restore the sense of security and the security of our civilian population. One of the many hundreds of thousands appeared, and the world makes a big deal out of it. Israel will deal with this democratically.
Israel will face this as it faces its democracy. A democracy where there is freedom of expression, even though not all expressions are the most standard or institutionalized. This is a democracy of institutions, not a democracy based on individuals or leaders, unlike many other places we come from.
To conclude, I ask you for a resolution for this year as the IDF spokesperson, and another on a personal level.
As I was saying, I've been in the reserve since October 7. And I don't do it willingly. My heart doesn't seek anything in return, except to fulfill the duty of communicating this tragedy of my people. To communicate how we are working to mitigate this terrorist group and others that threaten the area. And to ensure that this doesn't happen again.
I feel that it fell upon me to be here, and that I don't enjoy being a semi-public figure, a product of a tragedy. I am not the story either; I am a vehicle for Spanish-speaking people to know what is happening in the most precise and contrasted way. To use my capacity to convey what is occurring on the battlefield.
I do have a resolution. I feel responsible for what is happening as part of the army. We all feel responsible. But truly, my resolution, or what I prefer for this year, what I wish to do, is to return to being anonymous. To go back home, to the family, and think that everything that has happened in these last 111 days was nothing more than a nightmare.
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